Ok, I'm a little pissed
off. Saturday, June 23rd, as I was leaving Silver Cross, it was just past 7, I
started heading towards the Queen Station, so I could go back home. About 30
feet from the store, two cops who were leaning on their car approached me and
kinda trapped me (not physically, but as I tried to get around them they
blocked me into the recession to the entrance to another store)and started
interrogating me.
Now let me make this clear first, there was the one cop who was the instigator,
the "bad cop" as I came to call him, then his buddy, who appeared to
be uncomfortable with being with this other cop. Now "the bad cop"
asked me where I got my rings (I have numerous gothic rings on my right hand;
full finger knight armour ring on the index, axel ankh on the middle, axel
finger tip claw of death on the middle, axel tri-claw protector on the ring,
then a knuckle ring on the pinky with small hinged claws) and I told him Silver
Cross and pointed to the sign.
He started going into this big rant about how the rings were dangerous weapons
and how I could kill people with them. Then he noticed my silver fangs
(fangtastic caps) and seemed to flip out. He then frisked me for "any
other wacky shit" (smokes, cuffs, lighter, general shit) then he found a
small 1 1/2" pocket knife I carry ('cuz I might have use for it) then took
it and started calling me a killer. I told him I just carry it in case I'll
ever need it, and he said something along the lines of "don't bull shit me
kid, I know what you'd use this for, cutting people, right?" then he
mumbled shit about me being a psychopath, at which point he tugged on the
straps on my bondage pants and mumbled "what's with you fucking kids?
fucking vampires...".
He then took my ID and went to his cruiser, seriously mumbling about how
"he's going to find about how many time's I've been arrested". His
buddy (who, again, didn't seem to like being stuck with this guy) calmly
explained that the only real problem was the rings looked dangerous and could
be considered weapons. His buddy came back and said they're going to have to
confiscate the knife, and I started to try to tell him that in Canada it's
legal to own a concealed blade, as long as it's under 6" (and remember,
this was only 1 1/2"), but as soon as I said "look, I've checked into
these things" he quickly quipped , and I quote "shut the fuck
up".
Then he told me they were this far away *brings thumb and index finger 1 cm
apart* from confiscating my jewellery and arresting me. I again tried to tell
him that my rings weren't sharp, and if they were, they're not fucking
concealed, at which point he quipped "shut the fuck up" again. He
then went into how they're going to have to confiscate and destroy my pocket
knife, or arrest me. Not wanting to take his bull-shit any more, I said
"yeah, fuck it, take it man". As he was turning to go to his cruiser,
he looked at this guy Drey who was showing me around Pride and said "why
isn't your friend here dressed up like it's Hallowe'en?" and I just
basically said he's not a goth, then he (the "bad cop") went back to
his cruiser, his buddy following behind.
My question is this: Did he have any grounds for the shit he pulled, or would I
have been totally justified in shouting out "HATE CRIMES! HATE
CRIMES!" in the middle of Queen St.?? Because a punk goth friend of mine
back home got shit from the cops about 2 months ago about his spike collar
(ending up in them confiscating and destroying the spikes). I've checked into
the laws and as far as I can tell the collars and rings are all totally legit,
and am REALLY confused. Please help. Thanks.
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Chadwick writes: Ok, that is
shit, I mean, I am kind of on the goth side of life, but you know... I have no
restrictions for taste. So this is my story that is along the lines of yours.
Today I was searching up the laws on spiked wristbands and I stumbled on this
site and your story. My principal took me aside today to question my spiked
wristband (it looks wicked) and my claw collar. He said they might be
dangerous, but he checked them and he was cool with it. So then he just
commented about not allowing them in any shop classes (which I don't take) or
gym (fine with me). He then commented on how students were complaining about
them (did I mention I live in Fort Nelson, BC?? population of hicks: 4000,
population of goths or gothicly influenced: ME) so he just was worried. I just
think that as long as it's reasonable, this shit is fine. I mean, I have seen
people go into ballistics over my shit, but the one person you think should
worry most, was the most reasonable. By the way, my ! friends all love them so
I don't see why other's should be so offended. Thanks for listening dudes.
Remember, it's your taste, they can live with it. (September 6, 2002)
Ash writes: thats the
stupidest piece of shit i've ever heard. The 5-0 os bad news. My step dad is a
copper and I hate him more than anything. But hes not a dick cop, at least my
friends who he has "chatted with" seem to think hes cool. (July 31,
2002)
Billy writes: That really
is quite sad and disturbing. I consider myself neither a goth nor a punk
(although others insist otherwise), but I am deeply saddened that non-sense
like that is going on in our city. What ever happened to "To Serve and
Protect" ? That officer is clearly corrupt and needs to be dealt with. I
would have diffenetly asked the officer for his badge number (you have the
right to do so) and filed a complaint against him. The threat of that should
have sorted him out, but If he still refused you, you should probably have just
let him arrest you.
You have rights. I can not stress the importence of filing a complaint against
this guy. The "nothing will likely come out of it so don't waste your
time" arguement is bunk. It's that attitude that allows assholes like him
to get away with crap like that. Please file a complaint and send your story to
some activist groups. Good luck with it. (June 22, 2002)
Patty writes: That
is total shit. Cops need to take the dildos out of their ass and chill. I used
to buy my spiked bondage collars and shit at the silver cross. Lucky me went to
a kegger with them and ended having none of them on me when I woke up. I went
back to the silver cross willing to spend the cash to replace them (this was in
march) and the dude working there told me they can't sell spikes because of an
"incident" with them and the cops refused to allow them to sell them.
I think that is total garbage. QUESTION FOR EVERYONE: WHERE IN TORONTO CAN YOU
BUY SPIKES NOW? (June 19, 2002 )
Jack Danyá Kemplin
writes: hello, i am Jack Danyá Kemplin. i have started something known
as The Black Ribbon Campaign it is a protest to help STOP the prejudism against
Goths. here is the site URL http://www.angelfire.com/goth/holyguyver2 (May 14,
2002)
Dr. Who writes: I
would just like to say that i am NOT a goth i am a punk. Have nothing agenst
goths its just not my stile and i really like this web site i am on it cus
almost all of my friends are goths and about the spikes i think that it totaly
sucks what they did buton the other hand i have been in the pit when some big
fucker comes flying at me and hits me in the face o and look at that my face is
all fucked up cus some stupid bitch and some spikes i mean if you take them of
befor or just dont go in pits then fine it looks cool ect.. but watch out for
other people. p.s. punk is dead E-mail king_george_the_1st@hotmail.com
punk_is_dead@torgoth.com (May 08, 2002)
B. writes: I think that what that cop did was completely wrong. First of
all, i thought the police were there to protect the public, and help us. So
what's with the colourful language? Second, i don't think they should be able
to take your jewllery etc. unless it really and truely is a danger to other
people. And i don't think it was in this case. No one should be able to stop
you from wearing what you want to wear, again, unless it IS a danger. I think
that cop had no right to do what he did, or at least could have asked about the
jewllery nicely. (04/11/02)
SATANRULES
writes: I am from Oshawa and we still sell spikes here.I went to Silver Cross
on Saturday April 6th hopeing to buy a ton of spike shit and was pissed when i
found out that it was illegal. That is just bullshit. Fucking pigs
(04/08/02)
Christie. writes: I think that is SO fucked up! Do the pigs have any
right to do that? NO! I hate it when people think your a physco just cause the
some people dress. It's their body they can do what ever the fuck they want to
(02/14/02)
S. writes: Apparently the spikes are illegal. On a recent trip to Silver
cross they said that they can no longer sell spikes that stick out because they
are "illegal". However other venues in Toronto still do sell them.
I'm from Kitchener and we still sell them here. (02/08/02)
psychedelica writes: i
was told that knives had to be 1 1/2 inches long or shorter: that way they're
not long enough to reach the heart. so that's quite ridiculous. and i don't
even get how stupid someone could be that they would try to confiscate jewelry.
that's just idiotic. (12/16/01)
Gravityslavemaster
writes: concerning Jairus' comment; when I bought my hunting knife I called the
cops to ask about whether it was legal. I was told that as long as it was a
three inch blade or shorter I could carry it across canada if I felt like it,
so long as it was either displayed or inacesible (in a backpack or purse). If
the knife is a swiss army knife and quite small I'm sure that's different...
but probably not for us. (11/29/01)
arachnia writes: Yes, I
believe that incident was truly uncalled for, and if nothing else, perhaps you
may wish to notify the local police station by means of a well written letter
recalling the encounter... I don't quite know whether that would accomplish
anything, but I think we're all sick of being pushed around and I think we
should stick up for ourselves more often.(09/05/01)
wackyvorlon writes: Firstly, I
need to make a couple disclaimers. I am not a goth, I think I'm more what you
would classify as a "back-to-the-lander". I have friends who are
goths, but not what I would call "practicing" goths.
Now, I'm not seeing the view is right, but there's an old saying I ran
across:
"People can only tolerate so much weirdness in one person. You can be a
nudist, you can be a buddhist - but you can't be a nudist buddhist."
I put this forth simply as food for thought. I don't think it's right that
people are like that, but IME that's the way they tend to be. (08/31/01)
Eve writes: You know
what it is. Stereotypes. See a goth - assume they're all bad news. I guess your
lovely assortsion of rings didnt help. I have a pocket knife - I dont know if
you would consider that along the same idea or anything, but you should have a
right to carry something for protection...it wasnt even a huge deadly knife or
anything.
The fangs, the clothes, the rings....the cop obviously thought the worst. What
do you expect from them? Just report him, and make it a point not to judge.
(08/27/01)
Amos Jo writes:
Technically you could go down to the precinct and have the cop cited for
swearing at you. They have Codes of Conduct for police, and one of them is no
swearing. They can get a short (like 1 to 3 day) suspension for it. The chances
of that happening however is unlikely. Its far more likely that he would
receive a stereotypical slap on the wrist and the corruption would continue. Is
it worth your time? Not really.
As for the knife law, its technically 3" for folding blades, and 6"
for sheathed/non-folding blades. Swords are however an exception, and you would
have to research special rules about that.
What is truly worth your time? Working inside the law to create mandatory
guidelines for police on how they should approach such situations. If the
officer had concerns, he would have to follow those guidelines and there would
be none of the crap he pulled.
A lot of police pull this shit. I was hitchhiking in the states once (near
Detroit), and I stopped to ask directions from a cop and he ended up trying to
take me in for being a "suspicious character". What kind of idiotic
crook would go up to a cop and ask directions? Worse, what kind of idiotic cop
would think a crook would be dumb enough to do that?
Not as dumb as the ones that stopped me at the Niagara border and searched me
for marshmallows, but thats another story... (08/26/01)
Ian writes: This story
deeply upsets me. I live in Burlington. It's full of stupid rednecks and one of
the the things I go to Toronto for is an escape from that kind of intolorance.
You don't have to put up with that bull-shit. If the items you had could have
been used as wepons what about the guns that they had? A shiny badge doesnt
always mean a "good guy" you ran into an ASS HOLE. (08/23/01)
Lachrymal writes: I agree
with you, I think that the "bad cop" was completely out of line!! I
would've suggested going further with this incident and taking it right to the
high-end of the police-force (ie..getting his name and badge-number, which they
HAVE to give you if you ask).
Damn T.O. police. (08/19/01)
darkayngel writes: This is
really pathetic. Even in Mississauga, all the goths, punks and rockers i know
get "harassed" by the police, and have no legal right to object. It's
because of ignorant people like this cop fellow that democracy and the legal
system today is a joke, owned by whoever makes the most cash. I find it really
sad that you can only make a difference if you have substantial money to back
it up. All the power in the world is owned by fascist pigs who insist that they
are doing everything for our own good when all they really are doing is making
themselves richer and richer. Makes me sick. (08/18/01)
Drako07734 writes: It sucks when stuff like this happens. Carrying a
tape recording device should come in handy, if you go to complain when this
happens again. (08/15/01)
Uziel writes: Whether or not
the police technically have a right or reasonable cause to search you, it is
not acceptable that they exploit that technicality so that they can harrass you
and it sould not be tolerated. If this is a recurring problem in downtown TO
then everyone who experiences this shit should file a report, if enough people
do someone will take notice. Also if enough people make the problem known to
the media it can put pressure on the police department to do something about
it. There may be other activist groups or something similar also that you could
look into who could help with the situation, check the net and the government
listings, there may be an ombuds office or something you can contact. Don't
give them any reason to become more aggressive when they approach you,
cooperate, however clearly state that you feel you are being unfairly harrassed
and that you are going to complain to the department. And follow up on it! Be
sure to mention the aggressive/threatening behaviour of the officer and any
obcenities the dumb fucking bastard ;) threw at you. "Shut the fuck
up" is not a professional response from an officer. And everyone else
should keep in mind that not all cops are pricks, however the ones who are
don't deserve to wear their badges. (08/14/01)
Jairus writes: You can look at
bill c68 online (at http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Gov/c68 ), and it does
say a fair bit about concealed and other weapons.
In it, it makes specific mention that a "Spiked Wristband", being a
wristband to which a spike or blade is affixed; and any other similar
device" and "any finger ring that has one or more blades or sharp
objects" are strictly illegal. While your rings might not have been
sharpened, the cop was most-likely within his rights to be concerned by it, and
subsequently ask you to empty your pockets.
And contrary to popular belief, there is no "6-inch" law in the
books, federally. There are many informal "blade length rules" held
by specific departments, but according to the law, it doesn't matter how big it
is.
In fact, the code states that "Every person commits an offence who carries
a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless
the person is authorised under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed."
Any concealed weapon is illegal, unless you have a permit for it, regardless of
length.
While I don't think it's particularly fair for the cops to pick on you because
of your dress, they didn't do anything illegal. Sorry. :) (08/13/01)
deedman_inc writes: the same thing happened to me.. i was walking down
the street at queen and john on the north side heading to hmv to check out some
industrial music.. minding my own biz.. when 2 cops tapped me on the back and
told me lets go for a little walk.... and forced me on to the street where hmv
was then asked for my id.. sure i gave it to them one cop was nice and the
other one was a fucken asshole... the cop that was being rude was searching my
pockets without my consent and never asked me if he could search them.. and out
of no where he pulled out some tin foil mwith put in it.. witch i didn't have
in the first place.. and was trying to say it was mine.. when it wasn't mine..
and tryed make me say it was but i told him it wasn't and kept to it then he
go's on that he dosn't want to see me down town toronto again.. i know he can't
tell me to stay away from a public place.. and he let me go... i think when you
give some people power they miss use it.. and go on a power trip........
(08/13/01)
Uziel writes: Next time you
have a problem take the fuckers name and badge number and go down to the
precinct and file an official complaint, if you have a witness all the better.
(08/13/01)
Silent writes: If this
story can be comapred to anything. I would say its just like the social
happenings in any given high school. There is always someone looking to prey on
somone else who may be different in either clothing,religion,colour,or sexual
orientation. Just so they can appear higher in the eyes of those around them.
The cop on the street was probably trying to get some ppl on the street to
recognize him as doing his job by hastling you. Thankfuly ppl today (at least
most of them) are a bit more mature than the school bully (or pig).
(08/09/01)
Dustin writes: The exact same thing happened to me in Mississauga! I was
driving to Toronto and was pulled over by the police, given the same rant,
interrigated, and had a background check performed on me. I had no idea this
had happened to other gothic-type persons. I thought this was strictly a Peel
Regional police prejudice. I find this truly frightning. (08/09/01)
sinn writes: COPS SUCK ------- PERIOD ---- I have been hassled so much
by them ---- I'm a TG & they only have to see me on the street and they
start following me ------ I HATE cops ---- they should send them all to the big
donut palace in the sky (08/05/01)
Peter writes: Basically,
it comes down to humanity. Some people are assholes who just need to push
people around to feel like they're lives are worth something. Obviously, he
chose to take his mental difficulties out on you, because you don't dress in a
way he feels comfortable seeing. If you ever get the chance, get his badge
number(or as much information as you possibly can about everything to do wth
him), and report his sorry ass to the press. Write to the Star, the Sun, local
papers, etc. He's tough, so I'm sure he can deal with getting suspended.
(08/05/01)
vempyr writes: hey i was told
not to sure if its true, is its legal to buy this shit, but no legal to wear
it.. which i think is gay why can you buy something you can use.. its kinda
like them legalizing weed, to buy, but not smoke.. (08/04/01)
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