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The opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect those of toronto-goth.com
 "Gothic
Clubs and Their Inhabitants"
written by Leer
Email -
leerwesen@hotmail.com
Url -
http://www.deadjournal.com/users/leerwesen
March
2003
DISCLAIMER - This article is merely a cynical stab at the most
stereotypical groups in the Gothic club culture. I am well aware, and greatly
relieved, that there are people who do not fit into any of these categories.
Please take my intended tone in mind as you are reading this, or before you
send me hate mail.
There are several varieties of individuals who
go to clubs of the Gothic variety. The first two groups - The Fashion Obsessed
and members of The Rumour Mill - are so similar in nature that they can be
placed into the same category, especially considering that the average Goth
person easily falls into both categories. There are significantly large numbers
of people, labelled as 'Posers' who unsuccessfully try to emulate members of
both listed groups, and a smaller group of people who go to Gothic clubs in an
attempt to have a sexual encounter with a member of one of the first two groups
discussed.
Those who fall into the 'Rumour Mill' category are
notorious for spreading gossip. Their conversation is often based upon such
shallow topics as who is dating whom, or whom their peers are associating with.
They are very judgemental of others, and feel that this behaviour will somehow
make them look better than the people who they are gossiping about. Those who
fall into this grouping are generally discontent with their own life and feel
the need to elevate their status among their clique by putting others down.
There is generally a high level of hypocrisy in these circles, as these people
tend to behave in the same manner as those they look down upon, and their
mentality is similar to that of the typical high school female.
The Fashion Obsessed are quite preoccupied on their appearance. They spend a
considerable amount of money going to salons for haircuts, manicures and style
related items such as cosmetics and hair styling products. These people
purchase many articles of clothing, as they feel embarrassed to be witnessed
wearing the same outfit more then once. They waste copious amounts of time
preparing themselves to be seen at the clubs, sometimes spending more time
getting ready to go out then being at the actual establishment. The females of
this group are generally seen as being beautiful, though perhaps a tad high
maintenance, while the males are viewed as being feminine, perhaps to an
extreme level. Similar to the 'Rumour Mill' group, they spend a lot of time at
the clubs gossiping about others. Their main conversation subject, however, is
what other people are wearing.
Those who go to Gothic clubs in an
attempt to have a sexual encounter with one either of these groups usually
fails miserably, because they are noticeably out of place. For the most part,
they appear quite awkward, as if they are aware of the fact that they are
outsiders. When they do try to interact with others, they tend to be
overzealous, scaring away any potential dating partner. Their endeavours are
quite pitiful, and are generally looked upon with distain by other club
patrons.
The Posers are looked at as being more then just a nuisance
or someone to feel sympathetic towards, as is the case with those who go
clubbing to find a date. Posers are seen as a direct threat to the underground
nature of the scene. They are usually persuaded by trends and phases that they
observe in the mainstream media, which do not reflect the true attitudes and
lifestyles of the Gothic club goers. These people also tend to be quick to
label themselves as Goth, and are quite vocal about their chosen cultural
group; perhaps more so then long time members of the scene. Because of this,
the general public can be inclined to view the Poser variety as what a Gothic
person truly is, which is naturally distressing to those who are serious about
the Gothic community, and what they believe it stands for.
Despite
how these kinds of individuals who frequent Gothic clubs differ, most of them
have one thing in common: a fake attitude towards themselves, their peers, and
the scene as a whole.
Note: send your comments about "Gothic Clubs and Their
Inhabitants" to the author and tg staff using the form below and they will be
posted here. If you would like to comment only to the author, send an email to
leerwesen@hotmail.com.
Note 2: The opinions expressed in this
article are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of
toronto-goth.com
Huntress
(lady00diamond@hotmail.com) wrote on Wednesday, June 11, 2003
I've been
reading through the responces and I noticed something, that someone pointed out
the fact that lately the articles on this site have been negative about the
goth community. Why doesn't someone write something positive? Normally I would
do it myself, but I am slightly inactive in the nightlife etc so my opinion
wouldn't really mean as much as someone who's really out there. SO why doesn't
someone say something positive and uplifting?
Maribelle Lebre () on
Thursday, May 15, 2003
Funny how members of the Rumour Mill frequently
start their sentences with: "I hate rumour-mongers." and then proceed to tell
you very personal things - false or otherwise - about people you don't know.
Somethings never change.
Leer (leerwesen@hotmail.com) wrote on Monday,
May 05, 2003
"please don't use the gay=negative thing, I'm not gay
but I really dislike that" I wasnt meaning to use the word 'gay' in a negative
context.....when I said "gay techno clubs" I was talking about clubs in the gay
village. Sorry about any misunderstanding. "is there no place for the fetish
community in Goth Clubs?" I think there should be a place for anyone and
everyone in Goth clubs, including those who associate themselves with the
Fetish scene.
obumbratus (joe@nocturnal.com) on Monday, May 05, 2003
Despite all of
the generalization that seems to proliferate within this discussions here, I
would just like to suggest that maybe we could try talking to each other face
to face in the clubs rather than simply judging each other based on our own
preconceived stereotypes. Myself, am actually quite shy when I go out, but
never the less, I can never get enough of the ambience of diversity that I see,
both good and bad. Though I keep to myself and wander aimlessly, I would hope
that none avoid me on the thought that I am aloof, but rather the fore
mentioned reciprocal. There are also some coarse generalizations made within
your article, particularly the ‘fashion obsessed’. Given the diverse
gothic fashion available within this fair city, it should come as no surprise,
and even applauded that there are people out there who choose to take full
advantage of such available resources. New York City does not even enjoy the
rage of products that we do, so perhaps there sho! uld be, as there already is,
some appreciation for what some take for granted. There will always be posers
trying to get laid, so some tolerance should be practiced in that respect, but
also as a whole, as I would like to think that could be the one element that
separates the ‘goths’ from the rest of the social cliques out there.
Sabriel
(sabriel@antisocial.com) wrote on Monday, May 05, 2003
Curious, that
such an anti-label subculture as 'goth' should still end up with its own
divisions. And it's no wonder that I still don't feel like a part of the scene.
Not only do I not fit into any of the categories above or below, I don't even
consider myself to be goth all of the time. I just want to dress up a little,
go out, and dance. That's all. Socializing isn't something I'm familiar with,
and from what you're telling me, maybe I'd rather keep it that way.
lucius
(lucius_saturninus@hotmail.com) wrote on Sunday, April 27, 2003
Overall I agree with what you're saying, but I have a question. Based on what
you say about Fashion-types, is there no place for the fetish community in Goth
Clubs? I have always believed in mutual coexistence. What's your opinion on
this?
Rebecca
(redwards@arnoldworldwide.ca) wrote on Tuesday, April 22, 2003
Interesting read, it basically covers off the typical club scene - they all
have their cliques. Love the comment about "their mentality is similar to that
of the typical high school female."
But while reading this article
all I could think about is how my friends & I go to clubs for the music.
As the majority of the music is not mainstream and not played on air
- except college radio one or two nights a week - it's all about the music.
Why people care about who's with who or what someone is wearing is
beyond me and a waste of my time - just live your life, love your life and damn
the rest.
Market
Troll (god4sakn@hotmail.com) wrote on Sunday, April 20, 2003
Much of
my opinion has already been expressed here by others, but i'll throw in my 2
cents as well. Now, while it may be true to a certain extent that everyone
wants to be an "elitist", I think it just goes with the territory and can't
ever be sepperated from it. Put into a recreational social setting, everyone
wants to shine like a star. And frankly, this is a sub culture of people that
deserve to feel special. Most people that attend nights have felt in one way or
another rejected or fed up with regular culture ie. the "ordinary world" (or so
I'm ASSuming for this point) have all been down on themselves, have been put
down, abused in some way. Myself, I find everyone beautiful, it's a feast for
the eyes, I know that not everyone necessarilly "feels the way I do" but i like
the excessiveness of fashion that I see. I like all the shapes and sizes merged
together. A thing of beauty, enough to bring a tear to your eye ;) as for
snobs, sometimes people just seem like s! nobs but are just shy, sometimes
people just ARE assholes. But god bless them, they're our assholes. And lastly,
as for labels... eh, labels don't work. Don't even try it. Everyone is coming
from somewhere else. The best thing for the scene is a complete breakdown of
labels. Some of us barely belong in the scene, but its the most comforting
scene around, I must say. And please don't use the gay=negative thing, I'm not
gay but I really dislike that ;)
Rotting Crust
Leer
(leerwesen@hotmail.com) wrote on Sunday, April 20, 2003
"I dont call
myself goth, although you and most peope would"
I actually dont
consider myself goth. Its others who always give me that label, probably
because I hang out with other people considered gothic, and I go to gothic
clubs. As you said "Labels dont belong on people" They belong on soupcans
>:-)
"I wont just say this is true to just goth clubs, but all
clubs, and any social areas. People feel the need to segreate themselves and
form there own little cliques and silly rumors."
I got to agree fully
with that. Before my (recently) underage ass could sneak into Gothic clubs, I
spent most of my time going to gay-techno clubs (for lack of a better term) and
I saw a lot of the same behaviours in people that I wrote about in the article
above.
OneofAKind wrote on Friday, April 18, 2003
Yeah for my friend "Leer".
Well I wont just say this is true to just goth clubs, but all clubs, and any
social areas. People feel the need to segreate themselves and form there own
little cliques and silly rumors. Oh well I suppose it keeps them entertained.
Labels dont belong on people anyways, if your going to a club, like
the music and happen to dress in black then at least you'll feel more in place
at a goth club then say a Friday night at the Phoenix *lol*
I dont
call myself goth, although you and most peope would. Im just me, and this is
what I like. Period. Anyone who looks down at me for it is obviously a waste of
my time and lower than me. :) To them I laugh, I go to hang out, have a drink,
see some true friends, and look at some pretty faces and black leather. While
of course sporting my own.
Isn't that why we go??
Leer
(leerwesen@hotmail.com) wrote on Monday, April 14, 2003
I appreciate
the disclaimer and trust that my response is not considered hate mail"
I dont consider your response to be hatemail. I do however think liquid sky's
one liner response could be considered hate mail.
"If you’ve ever
lived in a small town ANY sense of an underground community was a blessing!
.....Try being THE ONLY Goth or Rivethead in Wallaceburg or Chalk River.... Be
very grateful"
I was born and raised in Toronto, so I cant relate to
that at all. I can however relate to being the school "goth", "freak" etc. but
at least I had places to go to and people to hang out outside of school, so it
still probably wasnt as bad as growing up in the armpit of Ontario.
Imp wrote on Sunday,
April 13, 2003
Funny that... Parallels can be drawn to nearly any
other club scene. It simply reflects shallow social insecurities, whether or
not one wants to be "mainstream" or "different".
Dark Dancer wrote on
Friday, April 11, 2003
I tried to ignore yet another article that
picks on the more negative aspects of the “gothic community”, but I
can’t. Even though this article gives everyone an opportunity to respond
(hopefully) in a more positive manner, I would just like to take the time to
ask for articles to be written that praised the hard and thankless work that
many members of this subculture do in support of itself.
I appreciate
the disclaimer and trust that my response is not considered “hate
mail”. Anyone brave enough to submit his or her work for a public lynching
deserves some respect.
“Divide and conquer”?! Hell! We do a
better job of tearing at each other then any parent - teacher group or
fundamentalist Christians!!
“Despite how these kinds of
individuals who frequent Gothic clubs differ, most of them have one thing in
common: a fake attitude towards themselves, their peers, and the scene as a
whole.”
Actually, if you want to know what some people from other
provinces or countries say about Toronto Goths behind their backs is simply
that we all have our heads too far up our asses. ^v^
*laughter*
If
you’ve ever lived in a small town ANY sense of an underground community
was a blessing!
Try being THE ONLY Goth or Rivethead in Wallaceburg or
Chalk River, Toronto looks like the Promised Land in comparison. Be very
grateful and think twice before you slander other subs of the sub-sub-culture.
Gothic Clubs and Their Inhabitants
When I walk into a
“Gothic” club this is what I see…
A good mix of both
men and women. (Not like some places where there are only guys at some Power
Noise concert. Also for example, men often attend Hard Cord Wenches
outings.)
Many different races, religions and those who have disabilities
can come have fun without fear of persecution.
I see:
Students and
PHDs, Corporate Goths and tradespersons. Mothers and fathers. Artists and
musicians. We are everywhere and everyone. And YES we are good people and
assholes. We bitch and complain about “them”, and get tired of the
politics or back-stabbing. Everyone is entitled to their bitching, but on
community boards would not it be cool to state that we are fucking awesome for
once. Because we do have fucking awesome clubs!! And the people in them are
just people, so take them or leave them. (Or mind your own business.)
Thanks
Dark Dancer
Seraph wrote on Friday, April 11, 2003
Hmm, part
of me likes the idea of going to a club. I don't go to crowded or noisy places
very often... but I wouldn't really want to get mixed up with the sort of folks
who think only 'pretty people' count... Myself, I'm a quiet, generally asocial
person, who, if anything, would go to the club for a rare dose of social
stimulation and to remind myself why I don't go very often. I wear jeans.
liquid sky
(laughing@yourpain.com) wrote on Thursday, April 10, 2003
whoa, you
really are an idiot.
Huntress (lady00diamond@hotmail.com) wrote on Tuesday, April 08, 2003
I was plesently surprised by this article. The one that I saw before this
was pretty much about the same thing and didn't seem as snappy and threatening.
I think the girl that wrote the other article (Ravyn_Nyte believe) should read
this over, because I think that the poser section of this article fits well to
what she was saying.
Leer, I see that you are quite observant and
have some clue about what the real world is like, and I applaud you for it. But
you do need to realize that among these groups there is the odd person that is
true of heart and is just trying to find their place in the world. You can't
condone someone for trying to find where they fit, so keep these people in mind
while you're looking around. They may need some guidance.
leer
(leerwesen@hotmail.com) wrote on Tuesday, April 08, 2003
I wrote the
article for school (got 76% on it if anyone cares to know)
Though I do
not intend on stirring the shit pot, I probably would find humor in reading
someones rant over this article.
Also wanted to say that I do agree
with nighhawk....eye candy is good - and yummy too!
nighthawk21
(nhmakva@hotmail.com) wrote on Tuesday, April 08, 2003
hmmm. Thank
you Leer for your article. I recognize that you know that there are other
people in clubs, but I am still going to respond. As a trained library person,
I find it interesting to see continued articles categorizing people on a goth
website. This lifestyle compartmentalization mission is daunting and
perplexing. If there is really a need to go all Dewy Decimal on folks, I think
it is important to expand the categories or eliminate attempts at
categorization.
I go to clubs to dance and talk with friends and
acquaintances. If someone's individual personality determines that they want to
dress, gossip or seek sex a certain way, who really cares? Does it close the
bar? stop the music? end the scene? I am not really interested in rumours,
unless it relates to which band is coming and how much the tickets are. I think
pretty people and well-dressed/made-up people should be permitted. Why would
anyone want to change anyone else? Eye candy is good. For the record, the only
reason that I don't wear the same outfit every day is because I hate doing
laundry : ) I doubt that many would argue with me on that one. As for sex
seekers, does this mean that clubs should be full of Ursula Le Guin Sexless
creatures? Yes, The Left Hand of Darkness is fitting for the social analysis,
however, if it is wrong to think or act on it, church is more appropriate in
this regard. If someone is just gross, walk away or ask one of the bouncers for
help.
What is the end goal of making definitions and turning clubgoing
into a library card catalogue? Do we all really need to be put into boxes to be
understood or, in this and other cases, misunderstood? It seems some folks in
this sub-culture have an inferiority complex or was that a Master vampire
complex. Truly this is not a spite on you. I am just tired of definitions. If
you article was to promote dialouge, I thought I would stick my fork into it
for entertainment value.
As one of my friends says, "FUCK IT! I am
dancing!"
With that, I will close.
Ghost
(d1g1Tal_gh0st@hotmail.com) wrote on Monday, April 07, 2003
Dare I
suggest you neglected to mention a piticular "group" : The "Jaded" Goth.You
see, the "jaded" goth, is an individual who no longers involves themself in the
scene, because a good portion of the people in the above-mentioned catagories
annoy them to their core, for making their once-frequent, "treck out to the
nightclub" about as enjoyable a root canal without the proper numbing agent
first applied. As a result, they spend the majority of their time staying home,
and only venture out to a club once in a blue moon, and even then, only to
remind themself of what they are NOT missing. Of course, I may be just cynical
myself, so feel free to take what I've said with a grain of salt.
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